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 Post subject: Understanding Berserk
PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2018 10:11 pm 
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Noxius
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Trying to understand it but not sure I do.

Berserk: This model may activate while Fatigued or Exhausted. In addition, once during its activation, this model may pay 1 Favor and suffer 3 damage to declare an action instead of gaining a fatigue, even if exhausted.

The ability plays out in three ways, depending on your ready, fatigued or exhausted state.

If you activate a Berserk model that’s ready, then no effect.

If you activate a fatigued model, can it make a free move? I think so since you don’t gain a fatigue until the second move. If you do activate you can attack, because that’s an action allowed when you activate. I can then attack and gain a fatigue and go to the exhausted state. Or I can instead take the damage to avoid the exhausted state and still attack. What I can’t do is power attack as that would take my fatigue level beyond fatigued and the rules state you can’t go beyond fatigued.

If you activate an exhausted model, do you still get the free move? I think so for the same reason as above. But if I want to attack, the only way I can is to take the damage as, once again, I can’t go beyond the exhausted state. Taking the damage allows the attack but since I’m exhausted, I can go no further

Do I have all this right?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:32 am 
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Viridis
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Hmm, I was a little confused and have edited this post several times, but I think I have the hang of my answer now.

I think the first thing to note is that both the rules for Exhausted and Berserk have been errataed since publication, because they are both tricky. But I think how it works is now this.

(For ease of reference: Spending a favor and taking damage = paying with blood.)

About the free move: You can take a free move whenever you are activating, as long as you aren't exhausted. An exhausted model cannot take actions except for one exception: If you use Berserk to pay for it in blood.

So: If you are fatigued, and activate with Berserk, then you get to do a free move as your first action. If you choose to pay with blood for an attack instead, then you remain fatigued, so you get to do a free move after that. But if you spend fatigue for any reason, then you become exhausted, and once you are exhausted, the free move is forbidden. All you can do when exhausted is pay for a move or attack with blood.

So if you activate an exhausted model, the same principle applies. You get no free move, all you get to do is take one action, which you have to pay for with blood.

Other than that...

"If you activate a Berserk model that’s ready, then no effect."

Well, the second part of Berserk still works. So you can activate a ready model, and Berserk will allow it to attack three times, for example, paying for the last attack with blood.

"What I can’t do is power attack [with a fatigued model] as that would take my fatigue level beyond fatigued and the rules state you can’t go beyond fatigued."

I'm not sure whether you would be allowed to power attack in that scenario. Technically, probably no, since Berserk says you can pay in blood to "take an action", and upgrading an attack to a power attack doesn't seem to me to be an action in itself. But I don't see any problem in saying you can. The intent behind Berserk seems to be to allow you to spend three fatigue where normal people can only spend two. So being down one fatigue and still doing a power attack, meaning you are down three in all, seems to me to fall within what Berserk is meant to do.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 8:46 am 
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Noxius
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I’m tracking on most of your response but I have a question.

If I activate a fatigued model, are you saying I can upgrade to a power attack by paying with the damage?


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:05 pm 
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Viridis
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I'm not 100% sure - but if it was my call as a TO, I would allow it.

The logic is thus: Using normal fatigue, if you start ready, you can spend two action points until you get exhausted. Berserk allows you to spend a third action point for a blood cost. If you start an activation fatigued, you start at minus one action point. You need two action points to power attack. So you pay the first point using fatigue, becoming exhausted in the process, and pay the second point using blood.

It feels within the appropriate intent, I think.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 01, 2018 3:50 pm 
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Noxius
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Explained that way, I think you’re right.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2019 5:43 am 
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Viridis
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Apparently RRG have a new guy called Frank Moran, who prowls facebook and says he is available to answer rules questions. I asked him about the berserk - power attack thing, and he confirmed that what we talked about above is legal.


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