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 Post subject: Theophania's Interdict
PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:06 am 
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Viridis
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So one of our new Greeks has an ability that says:

Interdict - When this model declares an Assist reaction, it may choose to be displaced by the target model.

Our friend LunarSol points out that Assist works much like an attack - you can declare it from anywhere you want, and distance only comes into it when you check whether your (re)action will have an effect or not.

This has an interesting implication, that does something like this.

1. Enemy model declares on attack on friendly model.
2. Theophania declares an Assist reaction - from anywhere on the table.
3. Theophania uses Interdict to displace herself, teleporting to the side of her friend.
4. The attack is resolved and Theo gets to assist.

It's the "from anywhere on the table" part of step 2 that is interesting, clearly. Because I didn't think of that when I read the ability. It didn't feel to me like that was what the intent was. But clearly, I have no actual idea, and I don't see any reason in the rules why she can't do it from anywhere.

I was thinking we could have a debate about this - do we think that the teleport is intentional? Or might the intention be that Theo has to be engaged with either the attacker or defender for the ability to work?

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 8:16 am 
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Compare with Frigge's Intervene ability. Intervene allows her to move three inches before and after she declares an Assist. So Interdict is very similar, except that it skips specifying a number of inches, and just says displace.

Theophania basically seems like a Frigge variation, in the way that Dimitrios feels like a Bjarrhvit variation. Except that Interdict seems massively better than Intervene. Which is why I am pondering it.

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:25 am 
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I agree, it appears she can literally teleport across the board, which is pretty crazy!
I like Theophania a lot, definitely my favorite of the Greeks.

I am however a little disappointed that it just seems so much better than Frigge's Intervene. As that ability was one of my favorite things about her. It also has me hoping for a similar ability to show up for the Zephyri in the future. It was my understanding that they were a faction more focused on movement, so it's a bit strange that in a way the "fastest" character, is not a Zephyri.

The point made in another thread about the Greeks being a bit of a mixture of already existing concepts is pretty spot on. I doubt I will pick them all up (probably just Theo and Archi). Overall though, I'm a big fan. They should be interesting to play against.


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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:57 am 
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Viridis
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I'm still skeptical about this use being intentional. Mistakes happen, like Dextarius not being a titan. It is possible that this was an oversight, and she is only supposed to be able to teleport if she is in range to assist in the first place.

This would make the ability more in line with something like Leika or the hip toss - moving around someone you are currently fighting. Teleporting across the whole table has not existed in the game so far. This seems like a strange way to introduce it.


Intent questions in games like these can be funny though. I remember in Warmachine a few years ago, when they released Mk3, there was a weird rule interaction that was clearly not intended - I don't remember the details, but it was something that turned something that was supposed to be an advantage into a drawback. When asked, the company said "Yep, this is totally intentional". The fans were flabbergasted and skeptical about the whole thing. And some time later, the company unceremoniously errataed the rule in question so it made sense again, with no comments about their previous stance. But it seemed clear that the thing that seemed like an error was in fact an error, despite the company having claimed otherwise.

Point simply being - with games like this, there's always room for skepticism.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:32 am 
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Official word on this :
"Walker says there is an update coming for both the general assist reaction and the intervene special rule.

For now please assume that Theophania must be within 1” of the mode she intends to assist when the assist is declared."

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:28 am 
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Interesting, appreciate the information. I'm glad they are going to limit it, as an "unlimited teleport" doesn't really seem to fit with the abilities of the rest of the models. I like how the "supernatural" stuff is present, but not overwhelming.

It will be interesting to see how they reword the general assist reaction. I assume they will simply add a limit on how close the assisting model has to be before it can be declared. This should hopefully preserve Frigge's role as a mobile assister.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 3:29 pm 
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Viridis
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As I assumed, no teleportation.

I'm interested in why the assist reaction would need modification - as mentioned, Intervene specifically relies on being able to declare it while some distance from the combat, so they cannot change it that way. The only change I see needed is that Interdict needs to be errataed.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:37 pm 
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KaptainWalrus wrote:
Interesting, appreciate the information. I'm glad they are going to limit it, as an "unlimited teleport" doesn't really seem to fit with the abilities of the rest of the models. I like how the "supernatural" stuff is present, but not overwhelming.


Just wanted to chime in here re: this point... When the KS was first going on, Nick from RRG described the game as being cinematic, meaning that during a game, the "camera" zooms in on one part of the fighting while you activate your model and that's where the focus is. Then the camera zooms in on another part of the fight when another model activates and so on. I've always thought of it like the battle of Helm's Deep in the second LOTR movie: first, you see Aragorn swinging his sword at some Uruk Hai, then Gimli, then Legolas, then back to Aragorn, etc....

With that in mind, I interpreted the original (now corrected) reading of Interdict as the "camera" zooming in on Theo sprinting across the arena to assist her teammate rather than some magical teleportation. I think that works for lots of the special skill descriptions too - less some mystic power and more a representation of some action movie action.


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