Arena Rex Forums

Arena Rex Forums
It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 4:35 pm

All times are UTC-05:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:14 pm 
Offline
Noxius

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:29 am
Posts: 53
So a situation came up in our game tonight. Player one was running a list with Khepros leading Proximo, Leo, and Dexterius playing them with Morituri benefits. In the run of the game player two takes out Khepros... So the question; since the cohort no longer meets the 75% threshold for Ludus benefits (there are no longer any Morituri gladiators) do the beasts still get Morituri benefits?


Top
   
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2017 10:44 pm 
Offline
Crudus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:19 am
Posts: 112
EDIT: I misread the initial question. Please disregard.


Last edited by KaptainWalrus on Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:44 am 
Offline
Noxius

Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:19 am
Posts: 30
Hey bud,

I am still of the supposition that during cohort creation is the only time this matters. Its too disruptive and changes the entire game otherwise.

No rule in the game suggests that ludus benefits are ever lost.

No rule in the games suggests that your cohort changes with deaths of models.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 3:30 am 
Offline
Viridis
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:38 am
Posts: 1484
Location: Scandinavian Denmark
I agree with Josh. Ludus benefits is something that you choose before the game starts as part of your list construction. I assume that the intent is that you keep that card once you have chosen it, no matter what happens after.

I feel like if the intention was that you can lose the benefits due to casualties during the game, then there would be some reference to that somewhere, anywhere.

I agree that the rules aren't clear on it. They just say that if you have 75% of the same school, then you get access to that school's benefits. It doesn't specifiy whether that is fixed at the start of the game, or is dependent on keeping the ratio throughout the game.

_________________
My Arena Rex painting log


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:30 am 
Offline
Noxius

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:29 am
Posts: 53
I can see both cases here (even if I think they lose the bonuses :))but lack of a rule does not mean it should not work in the manner it appears as written in the rules for Ludus benefits (page 15 in PDF) and not in building a cohort (page 12 in PDF).

It may be an interaction that they did not anticipate. It is vague enough that it would be nice to have a ruling because it can affect how you face an opponent that plays one gladiator and the rest beasts and/or titans.

It is not as disruptive as it appears as its major affect is only on those lists that seek to maximize the Morituri benefits (which affect all models). All the other Ludus benefits only affect gladiators of that Ludus. (All Ludus Magnus benefits are only available to Ludus Magnus gladiators, Legio XIII are only available to Legio XIII gladiators, and same with all Zephyri benefits). Also remember beasts and titans do not count towards the 75%.

Again it looks like the rule could go either way. It may be the case that the game has grown to a point that was not anticipated when the rules were first created.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:56 am 
Offline
Viridis
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:38 am
Posts: 1484
Location: Scandinavian Denmark
Since it's not specified in the rules, you just have to pick whatever interpretation your group prefers. I suggest a vote. If it's in a one on one game, and you disagree with your opponent, you have to either flip a coin for it, or abandon the game due to irreconcilable differences.

I agree that most of the time it will be a Morituri issue, but not always. I could have a 4-model cohort with 3 LM gladiators and one Legio gladiator with LM benefits. If I lose one LM gladiator, now my ratio is off, and I would lose my LM benefits for the two remaining LM gladiators (under the alternative interpretation). If the Legio gladiator is then defeated, my LM benefits would come back.

Seems more straightforward to me if the benefits just remain.

_________________
My Arena Rex painting log


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:10 am 
Offline
Noxius

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:29 am
Posts: 53
Definitely in small model count games it will be more of an issue and for those players that really decide to heavily mix and match yet still have a ludus advantage in a 6 model game. While it does add complication it also adds a layer of tactics to the game too. Do I take out the heavy hitter or try and snipe/flank to take out the one figure giving out the ludus bonuses.

I agree it will have to be discussed beforehand and probably stated before a store tournament or such as it will affect how both sides tactics.


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:07 am 
Offline
Crudus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:19 am
Posts: 112
Edit-misread initial question. Disregard


Last edited by KaptainWalrus on Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 11:30 am 
Offline
Viridis
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 4:38 am
Posts: 1484
Location: Scandinavian Denmark
KaptainWalrus wrote:
Perhaps I'm simply biased against the Morituri benefits specifically, since it annoys me that they are literally the only benefits where this issue would potentially come up, since all other Ludus Benifits require the model to be a gladiator of that that particular Ludus to even use the benefit at all.


Well, see my example earlier where ludus benefits would be lost, even though the cohort still contains standing members of the correct ludus, just because their percentage dipped under 75%. It's not just a Morituri issue.

KaptainWalrus wrote:
It just seems like a very gamey way (IMO) to get Ludus Benefits for a cohort that at the start of the game contains no Ludus aligned gladiators of any kind. (Per the example of using Proximo, Leo, and Dextarius)


I'm not sure I understand this point. The beast cohort would have to include a Morituri gladiator at the start of the game to be able to claim the benefits. I don't understand how a cohort with no ludus gladiators could claim any ludus benefits... a 4-card cohort of Proximo, Leo, and Dextarius certainly couldn't claim any.

_________________
My Arena Rex painting log


Top
   
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2017 12:31 pm 
Offline
Crudus
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 30, 2017 8:19 am
Posts: 112
I misread the initial question. I was thinking that the situation was two separate games. I.E. the first game was Proximo, Leo, Dextarius and Kephros. And then the second game the player decided to simply remove Kephros, and still wanted to claim the Ludus benefits. I see now that the question is if Kephros dies in the course of the game, does the rest of the cohort lose the benefits. And no, I do not think they would. If Kephros started the game in the cohort but dies, the beasts would still get to use Will of Antony.

Quote:
Well, see my example earlier where ludus benefits would be lost, even though the cohort still contains standing members of the correct ludus, just because their percentage dipped under 75%. It's not just a Morituri issue.
I don't think once a game has begun, that you can lose your benefits at all, regardless of who dies. Once a model is in the cohort, it is still in the cohort for model %, even it if subsequently dies in the course of the game. So in your example of 3 LM gladiators and 1 Legio gladiator in a cohort, that ratio never changes. Even if you lose 1 LM gladiator in the game, that model is still a member of the cohort.


Quote:
The beast cohort would have to include a Morituri gladiator at the start of the game to be able to claim the benefits. I don't understand how a cohort with no ludus gladiators could claim any ludus benefits... a 4-card cohort of Proximo, Leo, and Dextarius certainly couldn't claim any.
Right, I agree. That 4 card cohort contains no Ludus gladiators and thus should not be able to claim any Ludus Benefits.


Last edited by KaptainWalrus on Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
   
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ]  Go to page 1 2 Next

All times are UTC-05:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited
Theme Created by HOLLYSMOKE
Theme updated to phpBB 3.1.3 by KamijouTouma