Arena Rex Forums :: Ywain vs Counterattack

Haha, for as long as this discussion has gone on, I think I'm actually going to do an almost complete 180, and change my opinion regarding what is an "attack", and say the declaration aspect is more important. I also am now thinking "treat as" is the same thing as "is", going back to the Stheno vs Tribune question.

I appreciate the continued discourse. Even if it has been mainly the two of us going back and forth, it has certainly been helpful to allow my to look at the language of the rules in a different light.

Great catch that the damage rules actually say "after a succesful attack", and therefore if counterattacks weren't attacks, they could never do damage. I had not thought to look there.

Author:	Wishing [ Fri Dec 22, 2017 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ywain vs Counterattack
KaptainWalrus wrote: Haha, for as long as this discussion has gone on, I think I'm actually going to do an almost complete 180, and change my opinion regarding what is an "attack", and say the declaration aspect is more important. I also am now thinking "treat as" is the same thing as "is", going back to the Stheno vs Tribune question. Wait a minute... are you saying that we actually agree now? If so, my mind is blown... Great catch that the damage rules actually say "after a succesful attack", and therefore if counterattacks weren't attacks, they could never do damage. I had not thought to look there. KaptainWalrus wrote: I appreciate the continued discourse. Even if it has been mainly the two of us going back and forth, it has certainly been helpful to allow my to look at the language of the rules in a different light. Super excellent! And enjoyable too.

Author:	RidiQles [ Fri Dec 22, 2017 10:49 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Ywain vs Counterattack
Wishing wrote: Great catch that the damage rules actually say "after a succesful attack", and therefore if counterattacks weren't attacks, they could never do damage. I had not thought to look there. Well, not to complicate matters, but Counterattack does say “...if you roll more net successes than the attacker, resolve those net successes as if you had made a successful attack...” So even if Counterattack isn’t in itself an attack, you are still resolving the dice as if it were, so it could still damage. The question is: Is that enough to call the whole thing an attack? How much of the reaction as to be considered “as if” it were an attack to trigger abilities like Rebuff?

Author:	Wishing [ Sat Dec 23, 2017 5:27 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Ywain vs Counterattack
True, but opportunity attack is a reaction that doesn't have that wording - because it actually just makes an attack, as I see it. No reason to say that it counts as an attack when it is literally making an attack. The only difference between a standard attack and an opportunity attack is that the opportunity attack is a reaction and not an action, and therefore you never declare an attack (action), you declare an opportunity attack (reaction)... How I see it.

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