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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 7:37 pm 
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Noxius

Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 8:29 am
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Hi everyone, we just had a good size tournament at our local store and a few questions came up regarding some rules.

1. To attack Hermes a player must pay one favor. Does favor payment count against the amount of favor the attacking figure can use during an activation? (Typically 2 or 3 if Ludus Magnus)

2. Do living hazard beasts go wild during a clear turn?

And now that I a writing this my mind is blank on other question. I really have to write those things down when they happen! I'll post here if my memory returns!


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PostPosted: Sat Oct 14, 2017 8:08 pm 
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Noxius

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Remembering now! :-)

3. Does Ywain's redoubt reaction prevent him from being placed by Micon's Atlas Throw. Ywain cannot be pushed, displaced or shifted but Atlas Throw is just placed.

4. Proximo's Barking ability. Do I have you dicard favor at a1 to 1 ratio for each favor used or is it discard one each time I use favor? ( discard 1 favor so I can use 2 in attack)

More to come as my memory improves!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:56 am 
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Viridis
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Great questions! I will take a whack at what I think are the right answers.

1. Yeah, I think it counts as one favor spent. It seems to me like all favor that a gladiator uses during their activation counts towards the max of two, no matter what the reason is that it is spent.

2. No, I think only beasts in cohorts go wild. The rules for wild say that the beast goes wild during its cohorts clear turn. Living hazards have neither cohorts nor clear turns.

3. Yeah. It bothers me a little that "place" is not really defined in the rules, but Ywain doesn't seem to resist it. I feel like Atlas Throw is a little weird that way. The absence of rules for what you can or cannot do when placing means that he can throw people into pits (just require base contact) but not into pillars (need to be pushed). And he can also throw titans, like multi-ton rhinos, because their "Immovable" rule says the same as Ywain, that they cannot be pushed, displaced or shifted.

The throw acts differently from pushes, displacements and shifts, so I get that it is its own thing. And there is already loads of text to the rule, so it wouldn't fit on the card to also say "Models that cannot be displaced cannot be thrown". But I feel like it is an inconsistency. Maybe an idea would be to define "Throw" as another movement type in the rules, and say that it counts as a push for the purpose of hazards, but is not reduced by push resistance. And then both Ywain and titans can be made immune to throws too.

4. I see it as a 1 to 1 thing, where each point of favor is spent individually. But that's just my gut feeling. (Almost wrote "guy feeling" as a typo there.)

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:28 am 
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Noxius

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Thanks for the input. On question 1 we weren't sure and were split as we could see both sides of the issue. Question 2 we played that they did not go wild.

Question 3 we let him throw Ywain. The vagueness of "place" bothered us but as the Atlas Throw rules prevent throwing beasts and titans we figured it was working as properly.

Question 4... yep again one of those we. Could have gone either way with.

Thanks again for the input!


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:41 pm 
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Viridis
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Oh yeah, I forgot that the throw excludes beasts and titans explicitly.

To me it still feels like there is an issue of intent vs. implementation going on when it comes to the throw, because it is related to both pushes and shifts, but is neither. So it feels like intent-wise, Ywain should be immune to the throw - why is he immune to being displaced by a giant rhino, but not immune to being thrown? - but because Rebuff and similar rules are never going to specifically call out "immune to Atlas Throw", it's going to be a loophole every time they make a gladiator that is supposed to be immune to being moved. Because as it stands now, it is functionally impossible for anyone that is not a beast or titan to be immune to the throw.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 15, 2017 5:11 pm 
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Noxius

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I don't disagree with ya. :-)

It's one of those things that may need to be FAQ'd. I think the intent is Ywain under redoubt cannot be thrown but wording on current Atlas Throw gives that wiggle room.

They may just need to have a new category, throw/placed to go with shift, push and displaced.


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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:56 am 
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Viridis
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Shintaibane wrote:
They may just need to have a new category, throw/placed to go with shift, push and displaced.


Exactly my thinking. As it is written, the throw is its own unique type of "moving the enemy around", in addition to the other three. Because it is only available to Micon, it makes sense that it is only described on Micon's card, in theory. But that places it outside the normal rules frame of reference, where placing restrictions on this enemy-moving can be quite significant.

So I feel like for "accountability", maybe the rules for throwing people should be in the main rules like the other three, even if only one model in the game can do it.

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PostPosted: Mon Oct 16, 2017 9:17 pm 
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Founder of the Republic
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Thanks forum regulars for keeping the wheels on!

For clarity:
  1. Yes, Aegis requies a spend, and counts against model limits.
  2. No, only beasts taken as part of a cohort.
  3. Atlas Throw wins in this case (not a push, shift or displace).
  4. Barking is one discard per roll, not per die.

#3 is a really good catch -- Micon never got a throw off on a redoubting Ywain in playtest. Place should make it into the glossary in the next rules update. Redoubt may get an update at some point, but Atlas Throw is pretty awesome. Occasionally the unstoppable force has to beat the immovable object, or it takes all of the mystery out of the question!


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 2:56 am 
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Viridis
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Awesome with the official answers! Thanks Walker!

Interesting about Proximo. So spending two Favor points to add two Favor dice to a single attack or defense roll just counts as a single instance of "spending Favor"? Suits me fine, I just can't think of a clear and unambiguous way of phrasing it...

If you're still reading, is it intentional that Atlas Throwing a gladiator into a non-lethal hazard doesn't cause any fatigue or damage? It just seems a bit like an odd technicality to me, since the throw is clearly meant to be super awesome. :)

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 17, 2017 7:44 pm 
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That part is less intentional, but likewise (officially) stands for now. Most of the time you'll be pushing before or after -- I do have this question in mind for "place" wording on the next major revision, but I am not yet satisfied with any of the answers.


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