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 Post subject: Re: Leaving melee range
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:53 pm 
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Crudus
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RidiQles wrote:
So if you try to use a Move Action to get into a better attack position you are still leaving yourself open for an Opportunity Attack.


Yep. This is why engaging models is actually quite dangerous, because once you're in, you're in, unless you're pushed out of the way, reposition, wait for the enemy to be fatigued, etc. That's part of why disengage is such a great ability.

And as for disengage, on your own turn that's an interesting question. So far, I've only used it on an enemy's turn. Retaliate, ichor, and other similar abilities, are the only ways you can use disengage on your turn.
Whether you can react to it or not seems like it comes down to tricky wording and how semantic we want to be.

On one hand, the wording of disengage doesn't specifically say the model is invulnerable while moving, and I don't just slip out like a ghost.
On the other hand, I'm not technically declaring a move action. It's sort of like a bonus action.

Thematically, I'd like to think you can't react to it, because the whole point is to slip out of danger, and that's what the Zephyri are supposed to be good at (I promise I'm not just being biased :P)


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 Post subject: Re: Leaving melee range
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 2:18 am 
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Viridis
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GonzoGarbanzo wrote:
On the other hand, I'm not technically declaring a move action. It's sort of like a bonus action.


Hmm. Fair point. The rules for Maneuver (which the FAQ says you can react to) say "the model may declare a Move action". Whereas Disengage says "the model may take a Move action".

I could see an argument that you can't react to a use of Disengage since it doesn't say "declare". And Opportunity attack does specifically say that its trigger is the declaration of a Move action.

It's not like it will ever come up in reality, though... :)

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 Post subject: Re: Leaving melee range
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 8:58 am 
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Noxius
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It could!

Sven is engaged by Ur-kek and Tiet Khebi. Sven punches Ur-kek. Ur-kek player doesn't react. Ur-kek dies from the attack and triggers Spite. The attack allows Sven to trigger Disengage. Tiet Khebi can now react with an Attack of Opportunity on Seven.

;)


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 Post subject: Re: Leaving melee range
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:08 am 
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Viridis
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It totally could! I'm just saying that for most of us, it probably won't. ;)

If it should, I would go with the idea that you can't opportunity attack on a disengage cos it doesn't say "declare".

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 Post subject: Re: Leaving melee range
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 3:21 pm 
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Crudus
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Wishing wrote:
I would go with the idea that you can't opportunity attack on a disengage cos it doesn't say "declare".


Yeah, I think I would go that way too. There have been other rulings that define the "declaration" of an action as a separate event from the action itself... so since Disengage seems to skip the declaration part, then I would say no Reaction is triggered.

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 Post subject: Re: Leaving melee range
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2017 6:15 pm 
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Crudus
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Works for me, and other similar wordings too. Like, Ur-kek's [skull] spite says he "makes an attack", and you don't technically "declare another one", so I'd think you can't react to spite either.


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 Post subject: Re: Leaving melee range
PostPosted: Fri Apr 14, 2017 1:40 am 
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Viridis
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Agreed. I think we are meant to look for the presence or absence of the word "declare" when it comes to triggering reactions.

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 Post subject: Re: Leaving melee range
PostPosted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 6:42 pm 
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Noxius
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I was skeptical at first, but I've come around.


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