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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:45 pm 
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Noxius
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Agreed. It's the same unwritten limitation that applies top Alpha.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:57 pm 
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Reece wrote:
Agreed. It's the same unwritten limitation that applies top Alpha.


Well the Alpha one isn't quite unwritten. Alpha lets Anum trigger Frenzy, which allows Anum to target a friendly beast have the beast take an Action. It cannot apply to an Exhausted Beast because the rulebook says explicitly (PDF, pg 4) that Exhausted models cannot take any Actions.
With Exploit, the model isn't taking an Action, it's just resolving a [push].

Now, I agree that it should NOT applied to Exhausted models and I wouldn't play it that way, but the argument could be made that the way it is written it could.

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:47 am 
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Viridis
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RidiQles wrote:
With Exploit, the model isn't taking an Action, it's just resolving a [push].


Agreed. There really is no technical basis for thinking that an exhausted model couldn't do it. There is no indication that "resolve a [push] against an enemy model within its engagement range" should be considered an action. And hence no prohibition against exhausted models doing it.

It just seems like there should be, because Exploit "feels" like an action. It's part of the world of "things that are paid for with fatigue or Favor". It is very similar to the Zephyri tactic Ambush. It is not an issue with Ambush though, because Ambush is not a tactic that Sulla can command someone to do outside of a clear turn. Since Ambush can only be used during a clear turn, all models that could use it would automatically have stopped being exhausted at the beginning of the clear turn.

I'll add this to my "unanswered questions" list...

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PostPosted: Sun Mar 05, 2017 12:05 pm 
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Noxius
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Wishing wrote:
RidiQles wrote:
With Exploit, the model isn't taking an Action, it's just resolving a [push].


Agreed. There really is no technical basis for thinking that an exhausted model couldn't do it. There is no indication that "resolve a [push] against an enemy model within its engagement range" should be considered an action. And hence no prohibition against exhausted models doing it.

It just seems like there should be, because Exploit "feels" like an action. It's part of the world of "things that are paid for with fatigue or Favor". It is very similar to the Zephyri tactic Ambush. It is not an issue with Ambush though, because Ambush is not a tactic that Sulla can command someone to do outside of a clear turn. Since Ambush can only be used during a clear turn, all models that could use it would automatically have stopped being exhausted at the beginning of the clear turn.

I'll add this to my "unanswered questions" list...

Scarab's Toil (Khepros skull effect) is another similar one. Could this be used on an exhausted model?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 4:04 am 
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Viridis
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Reece wrote:
Scarab's Toil (Khepros skull effect) is another similar one. Could this be used on an exhausted model?


Very true, that is basically the exact same thing as Exploit - Khepros is commanding a friendly model to resolve a [push] against an enemy model. So the same question applies.

And I guess that if RRG agree with us about the exhausted thing, the easiest fix seems to be to just errata Exploit and Scarab's Toil to read: "A friendly non-exhausted gladiator model resolves a [push] against an enemy model within its engagement range." The point being to add "non-exhausted" as a targeting requirement.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:40 am 
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Noxius
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Ive read through the rest of these responses but I'm not understanding why the general census seems to be that exploit cannot be used on an exhausted friendly. Exhausted models cannot perform actions, the push from Exploit isnt an action.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:20 am 
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Viridis
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Chabbernackle wrote:
Ive read through the rest of these responses but I'm not understanding why the general census seems to be that exploit cannot be used on an exhausted friendly. Exhausted models cannot perform actions, the push from Exploit isnt an action.


Agreed, and the consensus isn't that they can't. Technically nothing is preventing it. We are just speculating that maybe it isn't intended. ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 10:43 pm 
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Founder of the Republic
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Good ones!

Veteran was really just to indicate that you don't continue rolling dice until all you have are successes. It's a single re-roll of all defensive dice (favor included) as long as he isn't Counter-Attacking.

Dictate is beneficial during both Sulla's activations and during a clear turn. It allows you to
  1. Use the specified tactics outside of a clear turn (during his activation) but only by paying fatigue to do so.
  2. Pay fatigue instead of favor for those tactics during a clear turn as long as you obey it's targeting restrictions

New Exhaustion(tm) prevents the declaration of actions by exhausted models. Exploit (and Scarab's Toil, and Ambush) do not declare actions, and thus get around the more recent restrictions on Exhaustion.


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