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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:25 pm 
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Viridis
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DillionDai wrote:
I'm betting he was supposed to have that but in this manner "This model may displace other models when resolving a [push] effect." He's a warhorse so I feel that he's designed to break up a crowd.


How would that work exactly? I'm not sure I get what you mean.

When I first read the card, I just assumed that he could displace enemy models while moving, because that's what the ability seems to suggest to me when read at face value. It took me this long to realise that he can't. So I'm feeling a strong sense that this (to me) intuitive reading is what he was supposed to be able to do, since the only minor detail that is missing for this to work is that he isn't a titan.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:43 pm 
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Again, this is not supported by the rules as written it's just my thoughts on how it could have been intended.

Dex being a "Charger", warhorse, seems that his abilities would lend themselves to each other. If this was intended, then his follow ups to successful pushes would allow him to displace models. This of heavy cavalry running down foot soldiers. Dex, by himself, otherwise seems very weak but that's not the first time that's happened. Sulla seems really weak to me.

Again, this isn't a supported interpretation. I have asked, via FB Messenger to Arena Rex, "What is the purpose of Dextarius having "Overrun" if he cannot displace models normally?"


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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:48 pm 
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Yay facebook! I hope you get an answer. :) Just to confirm either way what the intent was.

OK, so in your ideal world, Dex would move up, attack, do one push, follow up, then displace the enemy, then shift them, then continue resolving more pushes? It seems like that would work more logically without the overrun shift. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:56 pm 
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Yep, he'd only push the normal 1" with a 1" follow up, but if he contacts another model he'd fling them a full inch from where Dex finalized his movement. This would only work on his attacks as it doesn't say "this model or its mounted rider".


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:37 am 
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Viridis
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Hmm... just for the record, we agree that if an enemy model is exactly 1" away, you can attack it within your 1" engagement range, right?

Because if we imagine that Dex had titan-displacement powers, then I'm trying to figure out if he is meant to be able to attack the models he overruns after he shifts them or not.

The scenario would be that there is a clump of hostile gladiators standing base to base near Dex. Titan-Dex moves on top of them, and they are all displaced, moved all around Dex's base. Then Overrun kicks in, and all three models are now shifted away 1" from Dex. So the three buddies that were in base contact before are now scattered to the winds. (This is the scenario that I imagine Overrun is meant to be used for.)

Could Dex now make an attack against one of the models he has shifted away? We know they are all exactly 1" away because that is what the rule says they will be.

I imagine that yes, he can, but you can never safely assume that "exactly X inches away" counts as being "within X inches", so I figure it best to check.

I guess it would be exactly the same as if you start base to base with an enemy, you push it 1" away, and elect not to follow up. Can you keep attacking?

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 5:41 am 
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Viridis
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viley wrote:
Well then, got a few gladiators that need to be getting out of some pits haha. Never realized her ability can't throw you into the pit


I don't think I would have realised that either... haven't really played with shifts yet, but it sounds important to remember that they are not pushes, and that the shift will only move you, and never cause anything else bad to happen to you. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:02 am 
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Noxius

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Is there a ruling on lethal hazards and only pushes. They don't start as the other two do.

Also, although I didn't get an answer I did get some info.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:22 am 
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Viridis
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Yes! Awesome! Thank you! They are promising FAQ soon!

What do you mean about the lethal hazards and only pushes? The rules seem clear...

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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:35 am 
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I'd agree it can be interpreted that way but it uses different wording and there is have been different rulings. To elaborate:

Hazard : (Column, Wall, Rubble) - The first time during each attack a model is pushed into base contact with a hazard it gains one fatigue.

Wounding Hazard : (Spikes, Blades, Fire) - The first time during each attack a model is pushed into base contact with a wounding hazard, it suffers 3 damage. This damage ignores ARM. A Wounding Hazard is considered a hazard.

Lethal Hazard : (Cliff, Pit, Deep Water) - If any part of a model’s base touches a Lethal Hazard, that model is defeated. Mark any remaining vitality boxes and resolve their effects (if any). Then remove the model from play. Any additional successes after a model is pushed into a Lethal Hazard are lost.

The first two say that as the result of a push they take effect. Lethal says that if you touch base to hazard, poof gone. I do see that THE LAST LINE says "After a model is pushed" but that is to relay that you lose subsequent successes after a push if they go in the pit. Meaning displacement and shifting, or even the atlas throw can be used to trigger its effect.

Hazards also requires you to "declare an attack" for the push to work for the first two.
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=38424

Sulla and Ywain cannot use exploit or rebuff to cause a model to take hazard or wounding as RRG_Walker ruled in one of my earlier posts. Lethal would still occur so far as the wording allows and I don't believe it has been contradicted.


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 02, 2017 10:27 am 
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Viridis
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True, it's because the rule isn't in the hazard section, it is in the shift definition. The shift rules on page 20 say: "A shift is similar to a push, with the exception that it stops immediately before base contact with other models or hazards."

Thus, per defintion, a shift can never ever cause a model to interact with a hazard. The rule for shifting prevents it. And a lethal hazard is a hazard. Thus it is impossible to be shifted into a lethal hazard.

The difference between the lethal hazard and the other hazards, as far as I can tell, is that a model can choose to commit suicide by walking into a lethal hazard, whereas walking into one of the other hazards will incur no ill effects. :)

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