Arena Rex Forums

New general thread based on the issues raised here: viewtopic.php?f=18&t=38442

Reece wrote: In general, we have a problem with Wild and the potential abuse. Wild happens ANYTIME in the clear phase. Here are a few things we consider abuses:

Using Maneuver to skirt your guys away so they're not closer (not too bad actually).
Using Maneuver on a mounted Gladiator to Wild on a specific target (cheesy).
On a Last Man Standing, you take your action I the middle of the clear turn. So you can start your turn, activate your beast, THEN go Wild (super cheesy).

I really think forcing Wild to be at the very beginning of the clear turn would help a lot.

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And in my reply, I raised the following:

It sounds like you are having issues with being able to choose the order that you do all the other stuff in, that it seems cheesy and abusive to be able to use tactics before beasts going wild or after activating your LMS. Can you expand on that, explaining what about it seems cheesy or abusive?

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Hmm... I thought I provided three specific examples. I've elaborated slightly below.

1). Using Maneuver before the Wild to skirt your guys away so they're not closer in order to "direct" the Wild attack (not too bad actually).

2). Using Maneuver on a mounted Gladiator before you go Wild in order to "direct" a Wild on a specific target (cheesy).

3). On a Last Man Standing, you take your action I the middle of the clear turn. So you can start your turn, clear all fatigue, activate your beast and make your attacks, THEN go Wild (another "directed" Wild attack). On top of that, you could additionally use Recover to remove the Fatigue from your beast so you can react (super cheesy).

I agree that making targeted wild attacks is cheesy and kinda goes against the whole idea of a wild attack. I think to resolve this I would make two changes:

1. Wild attacks happen at the beginning of a clear turn. This would have a big downside in making the mounting of a beast very risky as the rider would often have to survive the wild attack before being able to mount since they have to be in base contact. But hey, mounting a wild beast during a heated battle should be risky...

2) During Last Man Standing, your model activation happens last, after all the clear turn actions are taken.

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I think the clear turn should stay how it is for purposes of taking actions but fully agree with 2. We always played it that way in our group, only way that seems to make sense to me

After some discussion and reflection, I agree.

All of the "funky" stuff for Wild requires favor. It's not "free cheese".

The activation for LMS should definitely be at the end though.

I assume that when we say "cheese", that means a mix of "overly powerful" and "seemingly not intended", right?

I can't comment on what is overly powerful nor intended, really, so it's hard to say, but I would guess that being able to mount your beast and maneuver before making a wild attack is intentional... I certainly think that always getting attacked by your beast before you can mount it seems unintended (can't the beast just push you out of base contact so you can't mount it then?).

I agree though that the LMS activation just being slotted in at any time during the clear turn seems a little odd. To me it seems most organised if it always slots in as the second thing that happens during the clear turn, though. So something like...

1. Clear fatigue.
2. Take LMS activation.
3. Use tactics and do other clear turn things.

I think that's because the LMS' normal activation feels like its "main phase", if that makes sense, and the tactics and other stuff feels more like a "secondary phase" to me. But this is more from an organisational perspective, not gameplay based.

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I see it the other way... you start the turn with all your units (your LMS) Fatigued, so it's a clear turn... that's the normal part of the turn. The LMS activation is the added portion, the anomaly. So it should go last.
Also, having it go last means that you can't use Recover Tactics to remove fatigue and be Ready and able to react... which I th o would give an even bigger advantage to the LMS.


On the other point, the one about when to make a Wild Attack during a clear turn and how to avoid targeted Wild Attacks, I think I can go back and agree that it should be whenever you want. As pointed out by Reese, any shenanigans there require a bit of Favor... so it's fine.

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I can respect that. I just need to think of the LMS clear turn as saving the main event for last, then, rather than it seeming like an afterthought...

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Yea, I had always played with tactics happening before an activation; since clearing fatigue happens at the start, it's that "clearing" stage where you use tactics.

Also, with wild attacks, I think it makes the most sense, from a balance and rules perspective, to have wild occur before any tactics. Wild is kind of opposite to "planned", thematically.