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When Septimus is on Nero, is Nero still considered a beast in terms of going wild?

It seems like Septimus and Nero, when fatigued, can clear turn, Rouse tactic get the favor gain fatigue, attack with Nero because of clear turn Wild, get favor from Nero damage tree, plus favor if getting beyond the end of the tree. Rinse and repeat. If Septimus is dismounted for 1 inch, clear turn, mount Septimus, and wild for the Nero attack.

Correct?

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"To crush your enemies, to see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women."

Yes, I believe Nero/Septimus is still considered a Beast while fatigued and therefore has to make a wild attack during a clear turn. I say this because in the rulebook under "Mounting and Dismounting" (PDF pg 13) it says: "Mounts making a wild attack will not attack their own rider while that model is mounted." That statement only makes sense if the Mount retains its Beast trait.

You could then use the Rouse Tactic to fatigue Septimus and get ready to do it all again on your following activation. However, if Septimus is dismounted he needs to be in base-to-base contact with Nero to mount (PDF pg 13). I also believe that the Wild attack would happen before you mount so Nero would likely attack Septimus as the nearest model (I thought I saw some post on this... still looking though).

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Morituri te salutamus.

It actually says in the rules that the active player chooses the order that these things happen in:

After you have removed fatigue, you may also use Tactics, riders may Mount or Dismount, and Beasts in the cohort go Wild. The order in which these occur is determined by to the active player. (page 5)

So I figure that Septimus can choose to mount Nero first, and then Nero can make his wild attack after, and get to attack someone else.

It would be kinda lame if you had to make the wild attack first. That would mean that Septimus would *always* have to suffer a wild attack before being able to mount Nero, since both of these will always happen during a clear turn. Thus there couldn't be a situation where Sep could mount Nero without Nero having attacked him first.

The scenario described in the OP seems totally valid. And it seems like it assumes that S&N are the only two models left in the cohort (or perhaps formed a 3-card cohort by themselves), and that they don't actually take any normal turns, only clear turns every turn (since they can fatigue themselves again immediately after removing fatigue). Is that right?

It would mean that Septimus never gets to attack, since I assume that only the beast attacks when the beast goes wild, but it means free wild attacks every turn and free Rouse favor every turn too.

The only point of question I hit seems to be how the ludus benefits interact with a mounted pair. In some respects, the mounted pair are considered separate models (e.g. you attack them separately), but they share a single fatigue level. So when a Ludus Magnus gladiator can get a Favor through Rouse, does that work for S&N, who have shared fatigue and therefore have 50% LM fatigue and 50% beast fatigue? You can't give only Septimus fatigue when he is mounted, the fatigue goes on both of them.

The most intuitive answer I think is yes, the mounted pair is considered to be the rider for the purposes of fatigue use, because the rider is on top and seems like he should be able to Rouse even though he is mounted. But it doesn't specify this in the rules so it's an assumption of intent.

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Ha. Can't believe I missed that right there. Thanks.

As far as the shared fatigued thing I interpret that to mean that if anything were to make either of them fatigued, they both get fatigued. So using Rouse on Septimus would still be valid and fatigue both of them.

But as you said, that's all interpretation.

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Morituri te salutamus.

I agree entirely with that interpretation. I think where I get stuck is that Rouse can only be used by a Ludus Magnus gladiator. And it seems to me that for the purposes of fatigue, and hence this tactic, S&N are one unified model. So it's not Septimus using Rouse, it's the unified model of S&N using Rouse.

But the way to solve it is just to think like you suggest - that Septimus actually acts independently, not as a unified model, and he just happens to pass his fatigue on to Nero. I would presume that it would work the other way too, so if there was something that only beasts could do that incurs fatigue, then Nero could do that, and pass the fatigue on to Septimus.

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