Arena Rex Forums

So as part of the Ludus benefits it states that if a gladiator reaches the bottom of their tree with one or more successes left over they gain one Favor. Since Hermes has two trees, does he gain that benefit if he goes down the shorter tree? So if he gets 4 successes can he go down the shorter tree and use those 3 boxes then get the additional favor?

Also, since Noxious can count as a member of any Ludus does he get their benefits?

I actually had this discussion yesterday in a game with Noxius and Hermes.

If you go down the shorter tree for Hermes, you don't get the Circus Maximus favor. You have to exceed all possible options.

My friend actually reached out to Red Republic Games, and he said Noxius does count as a member of any ludus and can use their benefits.

Haha, you might've been playing me. Brooklyn Strat?

Yup!

Hmmm. Just to expand/clarify on that one. Noxius allows you to use Ludus benefits, he himself doesn't actually qualify to use any benefits that are Ludus specific.
Under Expendable (Noxius card ability): "This model may count as a member of any Ludus when determining whether your cohort qualifies for Ludus benefits."
It specifically says that it is only during that determination that he counts as a member of a Ludus, not at any other point in a match.
So, if you were to have a cohort made up of say Bjarrhvit, Sven, Aemilia, and Noxius that cohort would qualify to have access to the Zephyri benefits as Bjarrhvit, Sven, and Noxius (3 out of 4) would count as Zephyri for that purpose. However, all of the Zephyri benefits specify that they can only be applied to Zephyri gladiators so really only Bjarrhvit and Sven could use them as they are the only Zephyri in your cohort.
RRG_walker explains that in this thread in the answer to question 4:
viewtopic.php?t=33917

If you were to use Noxius as part of a Morituri cohort (made up say Zahra, Mago, Noxius, and Lupa), he would be able to use the Morituri Benefits "Will of Antony" and "Offering" since those benefits apply to any friendly model and not necessarily a Morituri.
RRG_walker goes through that example here: viewtopic.php?t=33901

Hope that clarifies more than it confuses...

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Hmm. Just to be clear, we agree that Hermes only has one tree just like everyone else, he just has the option of choosing a path on it that has a terminating node after only three nodes. Right?

I don't really think I like the answer you suggest. It seems a bit "just because" to me. In my logic, the damage tree ends (= you reach the bottom of the damage tree) when you get to a node that doesn't lead any further. Whether you get there after three nodes or five nodes I don't see how can make a difference (except for in a "I don't like it" sense).

Maybe the underlying idea is that you can only Flourish if you have *lots* of successes, and therefore you can't take a shortcut to it with a character who has the option of taking a short trip to a terminating node, but saying that that is the rule feels awkward to me. The logical conclusion to me is that the bottom of the tree is whenever the tree stops you from moving further.

(Flourish is the ability related to reaching the bottom of the damage tree. Circus Maximus is the ability to use 3 Favor instead of 2.)

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They were pretty solid on Flourish only working if it's the bottom of the longest tree and Noxious basically trading that "x" symbol for whatever cohort he's in, aka being a Ludus Magnus gladiator if in a Magnus cohort, therefore being able to benefit from Flourish, Rouse, and if last man standing, the using 3 dice per activation

Not so familiar with Zephyr so can't comment on their Ludus benefits tho..

The Flourish thing I feel like you can argue either way, since there is no clear intuitive definition for what "bottom of the damage tree" means, it seems.

But I agree with Ridiqles that the rules are very clear that Noxious only counts as any ludus member "when determining whether your cohort qualifies for Ludus benefits". Which is something that happens at the list building stage. It says nothing about him counting as a member of any ludus during the game. If they wanted him to count as a member of any ludus at all times, then there should have been no "when" clause, and the rule should just have been "Noxius counts as a member of any ludus".

It sounds like you are saying that you have spoken to RRG, and they have given you answers to the above questions as per your explanations. Which is cool. But if we want to work with the "rules as written", the Noxius rule says something else. If we want to establish a community consensus on how the rule "should" be played - which is generally the purpose of debating rules on this forum - then we need something more concrete than hearsay. Because we're basically talking about an errata change.

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Yup, that is exactly why I emailed them. I'm going by their response as the final ruling, even tho I agree with you on the success tree ruling on the Flourish, I'm ultimately going to go with the RAI from the game developers.

Personally I felt like the email would settle these questions, that's why I posted my result in emailing RRG.

Yeah, getting a rule interpretation from the developers is a pretty solid basis for playing it that way. It's just perplexing because the threads I linked to in my earlier response show a contradicting interpretation from the same developers within the last year or so.
Maybe there will be a new errata document coming out (soon, I hope) that will formalize and standardize their stance.

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Morituri te salutamus.