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PostPosted: Wed Aug 28, 2013 3:15 pm 
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Noxius

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:52 am
Posts: 69
Today we played a 3vs3 and found some imbalances in the standart rules.

1. Using Maneuver standart tactic on more than 1 gladiator seems kinda overpowered.
i had a clearturn moved otho into meleerange and moved hermes, so he could move and attack 2 times. that was kinda taff.
That kinda cripples forcing clearturns to be a dissadvange, since maneuver or even recover arent restricted enough. using cleaturns as a benefit is much easier. seems like clearturns doesnt have any disadvantages.

2. too many benefits in a row:
i attacked mago and damged and pushed him into otho, not following. then i took my free movement into attackrange against zhara and attacked her again.
thats seems kinda rediculous...

3. Powerattacks using favourdice are to overpowered, since you can reroll them and the defender cant.

4. Infelix is to week, compared to morituri glascannon (1more def and 1 more armor). he kinda leeks and additonal def/armor.
if you cant killl your target on your turn and there is another enemy in range, hes only a 1v1 trade (thats bad if your 2nd player). he died every time after 1 activattion in combat.

5. assist reaction is way to week. counterattack is always better. only a few cases with xiii legion are better for defense, but lag benefits for attcker rolling poorly and getting dmg himself.

6. zhara and hermes seem to good compared to the rest.

7. the morituri death effects are way to spezific and doesnt make seems to play for. only mago seems kinda okay/good.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 3:03 am 
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Noxius

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:52 am
Posts: 69
next set of games: this time 5vs5. the game is MUCH better this way.

still some gameplay issues/thoughts, that doesnt feel right:

a) we played that you can pass friendly model but enemies blocking track. -> was a little more strategic this way, and the different basesizes became a factor. (maybe increase engagementrange for larger based minitures by 0,5 inch for more strategyplay)

b) how does palladius works in a clearturn of a morituri cohort? can you bleed and the heal up again with him? that seems kinda overpowered and we came up with a gameplan, that you wait at your startingpoint "moving"/but not moving all your gladiators only to get them fatigued and get a TON of favour dice. the enemy must move with all his gladiators towards you, in order not to get them killed individually. that should be about 6-8 favourdice for nothing for morituri this way.

c) how does this work: i move. no reaction form enemy. i move again into engagementrange. he reacts and leaves range. thats so stupid,but not ruled. you cant do anything since you cant opportunityattack in your turn.....

d) a template with 1 inch range would be good for meleerange and pushrange measuring and planing your turn.

e) during clear turn: when you check for 75% on ludus for tactics? each clearturn or only at start?

f) still not 100% sure how multiple pushes on a single attack into hazards should work. each time moving fatique up? we play on spikes that you get the 3 dmg only 1 per turn, kinda more balanced this way.

g) big problems we found with favor dice and powerattacks: using favor only for attacking seems so much better, since you can reroll them and get the effect of 2 dice out of just 1 . the defender cant really protect himself this way (kinda rediculously strong) this makes infelix even worse, he died everytime in only 1 attack this way.

h) its okay that you can force an enemy into a clearturn, but taking one by yourself (whenever you want) as a option would be good.

all problem that kinda crippled the gameexperience alot for us.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:20 am 
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Noxius

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:52 am
Posts: 69
no one givin' his opinion?


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 10:51 am 
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Noxius
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Joined: Tue Jun 18, 2013 12:58 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Olathe, Kansas
You covered a lot of stuff in there, here's some of my thoughts...

1 - I personally don't find the maneuver tactic that overpowered, considering they must spend a favor to do so for each gladiator they wish to use it on. Sure, that cost is lowered in a 3v3, but in a 5v5 or 8v8, the opponent could potentially be spending their entire reserve of favor (or a majority of it) to do so. Also keep in mind, a gladiator can only move once a turn through that tactic, which grants them a space of 4"-7" depending on which model moved. From there, I could use my free move on my turn to cover that distance, especially if they started in base-to-base prior to the maneuver tactic, and attack twice (or powerattack). Depending on health and dice rolls, the opposing gladiator should die, especially if I throw extra favor dice into the attack because my opponent just spent all his during the previous clear turn.

2 - If I'm reading it right, you attacked Mago, resolved the attack with a push but no follow up to take you out of his melee range. (You are now fatigued) Then used your free movement, to move into engagement range of Zhara, and attacked her. (you are now exhausted) I personally don't see anything wrong with it, seems like a smart play to me, and very dynamic if you picture a lone gladiator splitting attentions and attacks between two opponents. Just keep in mind that in regards to the attack against Mago, that once you are out of melee range of your target, you stop resolving further effects on the damage tree, making the timing of your push (and no follow up) important.

3 - Powerattacks with favor dice are strong, but not only are they spending a bunch of favor dice to do so, they are also taking a chance by exhausting their model as well. I find a good counter is to reaction: counterattack using your own favor dice. Sure, the opponent has an advantage in that he can reroll, but as the defender in this scenario I've rolled well enough in the past that even if I did not outright negate their attack, I've drastically lowered its effectiveness and my gladiator survives and is now facing an exhausted opponent. Also, if you are using Ludus Magnus, you can further roll an extra favor than the opponent, which can help with the defense, or you can use the LM tactic and make it so the opponent can only spend 1 favor on the attack.

4 - The only thing that boggles me about Infelix, is his DEF 1, which seems a point or so too low imho. Through the use of reactions. and other elements like Otho and Viatrix, I've managed to keep him alive during games, or I made the opponent pay heavily for going after him. He's one of the more difficult models to use, but his damage output and swift keeps me using him. He's a come up from the back or flank from the sides, and rush in for the kill type of gladiator. He dies if he gets stuck in for too long.

5 - I generally tend to counterattack, unless the assist will raise the total dice I'd roll above my attack stat for the counter, or I'm using models like Frigge that have other abilities benefiting from assisting. Assisting has it's place, but yeah, in general I look to counterattack first...

6 - Yes and no. Zahra's good, but her damage output is low. Don't let her get you near any pits, and she cannot seem to hold her own in any 1v1 situation. With Hermes, yes is Aegis of Fame ability can be potent, but aside from his MOV 6 and Attack 6, his stats are average. His damage tree, while very versatile, is also average in the damage dealing department, with a lot of 2's which are easier to mitigate by armor should he roll poorly. His max, base damage (from the top of the tree to the bottom, no bonuses from pushes, exhausted targets, etc)) is only 9 damage before taking into account the enemy armor. Both are good in their own ways, but they do come with some weaknesses...


The next part, in regards to the 5v5's...

a) - No real comment here...

b) - Seems like you could bleed him, then heal. The thing is, how quickly could the opponent get to you and stop it? Bearing mind, after you resolve your move/not move, the opponent could take a move reaction, then on his turn move another gladiator up twice. You do your turn, opponent reacts, does his. The scenario bears testing imo, but I imagine you not going to be able to generate to more than a single (maybe 2) clear turn's worth of extra favor the enemy starts engaging unless the opposing side is nothing but slow models. It would definitely be pretty broken if you could initiate your own clear turn whenever you wanted as per your comment under section h), but as it stands, it would take a couple of turns to get everyone fatigued enough to be able to force a clear turn on yourself. It's an interesting find, and one that bears testing...

c) - That is how it currently works. It's all part of the game of of baiting, and chasing opponents, committing your gladiators, and forcing the opponent to over commit. Here models with swift, Bjarrvhit, and guys like Marcus and Mago really help. That said, I could see a bit of a case for an addendum or an additional word added to the move reaction, that would make it so the reaction: move could only be used after the first base move an opponent does it turn. I'd say throw it up in the " rule suggestion section" of the forum, make a case for it, and see what other say.

d) - I agree. I keep meaning to make one up myself...

e) - My interpretation was that the 75% rule was really only taken into account during the cohort creation/set up. If you have 75% of your chort being from Ludus Magnus at the start, and say 25% from Blood Brothers, then you are then playing the "Ludus Magnus Faction" for that entire game, and are subject to the Ludus Magnus passive rules and tactics for the entire game, regardless of any models that die during the game.

f) - I'd have to dig for it, but I'm pretty sure they said you could only receive the effects from a given hazard once per turn. So I believe you played it correctly...

g) - My views/thoughts on this are above in point #3...

h) - Up until just now, after re-reading the rules for a clear turn, that is how I had been playing it, that you could initiate a clear turn at any point. Playing it that way does negate some of the disadvantage caused by powerattacking and exhausting, makes Gaius pretty powerful, and could potentially lead to some odd scenarios like the one you pointed out above. I got to make sure I'm doing clear turns correctly from now on...

_________________
"He vows to endure, to be burned, to be bound, to be beaten, and to be killed by the sword." -The gladiator's oath

http://www.nerdsvsninjas.blogspot.com - a humble blog about gaming and other nerdy stuff...


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:05 am 
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Noxius

Joined: Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:52 am
Posts: 69
over 100 views and 1 reply. come on guys, add some constructive feedback.


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