Arena Rex Forums

So this one is really interesting to me. At least in the game systems I play, most models have accounted for weapons and profiles.

I found it really interesting in Arena Rex that models are all different but just have a card.....

Has anyone ever talked to the designers or heard anything about how they balance the cards to what they find fair?

I mean....some cards are so drastically different. I havent found an issue yet, but I have always been curious.

I imagine that they have some rules of thumb, but generally just use intution.

You can see the general guidelines pretty clearly. A standard profile is something like hovering around MOV 5/6, ATK 6, DEF 2, ARM 1/2. Around 11 or 12 vitality points. A maxed out damage tree adds up to about 11 damage points.

Then different models have different tricks. How exactly these tricks can be valued in terms of balance is a question of interpretation, as in most games.

Hermes is an interesting example I guess. He both has ATK 7, which is very rare, and a unique ability where it costs opponents favour points to attack him. On paper, he seems very strong to me, as his only downside that I can see is that he only has 9 damage points in his damage tree.

Is he fair? I haven't used him yet, so I don't know. But I haven't seen anyone complain about him.

Reversely, someone on facebook was saying that Noxius seemed quite weak to him, because he only has ATK 5 and a rule that forbids him from spending favor points. But to make up for these downsides, he has an extremely mighty damage tree, doing 14 damage points in only four results. So I can definitely see the point in taking him.

I guess I kinda get the feeling that the design of the game works in such a way that it doesn't matter that much how exactly the different models compare to each other in terms of stats and abilities. The models are all similar enough that they can all compete, regardless of specific differences.

Iocasta might be an interesting example too. She has a pretty standard Morituri stat line, and two awesome abilities - one "armour piercing" where she ignores armour, and one "sirocco" where she can split her attack over two models. No particular downsides that I see. Compared to Hermes, Iocasta is stronger offensively I think, but she doesn't have the strong defensive ability he has. So they seem similar.

We also have the two guys with tridents and nets. They both share the "entangle" ability, due to the net, but otherwise they have ups and downs compared to each other. Marcus has MOV 6, ATK 5 and DEF 3, Mago has MOV 5 and ATK 6 and DEF 2. In addition to entangle, they both have a different secondary ability. Is one of them better than the other? I dunno.

So for design, I guess the template is to take a "standard" gladiator, and tweak it a little in terms of stat variations and interesting abilities. As long as you don't go overboard in either "too strong" or "too weak", it will mesh with the rest of the game pretty well quite easily.

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My Arena Rex painting log

Thats a great detailed response. Thanks for bringing up certain models and comparisons.


Of course I never tried to say anything is imbalanced and everyone will always differ in opinion on what is actually 'better' but its always fun to discuss.

Its one of those things like is it better to have higher vitality and defense and low armor or lower vitality, average defense and awesome armor. To each his own.

I will say anything that gives me a lot of dice I prefer because I've gamed enough to have lost entire games rolling wise multiple times. That being said sometimes you lose other things for that i.e. special abilities and tricks.

Hermes vs Noxius is very interesting.

Hermes can roll 7 dice and get three successes and his opponent may stop and attack. Noxius may power attack and get four successes and destroy something. It is what it is I guess.

I still always feel poorly about models who just lack dice.

The more I see Legio played the more I want their defense/armor combo hahaha.

You'll never have an interesting game if every model is exactly balance against every other one. And that's the fun, figuring out combinations of models that you can work well with. I often don't do a single Ludus, because I enjoy experimenting with how different model traits work well together. I lose the Ludus benefits, but some times it pays off.

I complain about Hermes a LOT! Man, I hate that guy, because I don't gain favor as often as needed to deal with him. So like any other game, you need to figure out how to deal with him. I make sure to keep people near him who can react, because you don't need to spend favor to counter attack.

Think about taking Hermes and Bjarrhvit, and getting them both into combat with other models. She cancels an opponent's ability to react, which makes it so the only way to hurt Hermes is by spending favor. Ugh. Now I really want to try that!

So while no, individual models aren't exactly balanced against every other model, I think there is good balance in this game. And some factions may seem to have an advantage over others, but then again a lot depends on your play style and how the teams are composed versus how the other team is composed.

Don't be afraid to mix things up! And seriously, try proxying for a model if you don't have it but want to see how it would work for you! As long as you're clear with your opponent who it's supposed to be and what they can do, I've found people don't mind.

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-Jeff [LemonKraken]

Thinking of interesting combos with gladiator abilities is fun, and Hermes is especially suited to this because of his Aegis of Fame. One classic example is Hermes and Otho - Hermes requires favor to attack, and Otho means you can't spend favor, so the two together can make it impossible to attack Hermes. Kraken mentions Bjarrhvit, who can make it so you also cannot counterattack. Ability combos = crazy times!

To me, the main thing in the game that makes it so these combos usually aren't as oppressive as they seem is that models activate individually and you take turns activating. So you have to move Hermes, Bjarrhvit and Otho up the field one at a time, and I can react to what you do each time. If Otho is preventing me from spending favor, I can just move out of his engagement range before I attack Hermes. The trick is to make that difficult for me. So the game is quite deep and tactics usually aren't as simple as they might first appear.

Anyway. Since the thread is about balance, and balance tends to express itself in terms of popularity, what are the most popular gladiators in Arena Rex? If we look at the tournaments that RRG have run at cons this year, which models do we see a lot?

I'm not sure, since I haven't been to any cons, but my superficial impression is that both Morituri and Bestiae seem really popular as schools overall, so I guess their popular stars are ones like Anum, Zahra, Tiet-Khebi and their kin. Ludus Magnus gladiators that seem popular to me are mainly Micon - I feel like I see him mentioned regularly in conversations.

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My Arena Rex painting log

It's actually an interesting game to map out. There isn't a ton of variance in base statlines, (particularly within a Ludus) so its fairly easy to group up similar gladiators and see what they do and where they shine. A standard fighter is generally MOV 6, ATK 6, DEF 2 with an ARM/Health mix that lets them survive about 4-5 hits. The base damage currency seems to be about 2 damage per success and most attacks are looking for 2 successes without modification.

What you'll find is a lot of trade offs. The gladiators with extra durability are generally slower, but also generally hit harder. The fastest fighter with top end durability is Viatrix but she instead has below average damage output. Titans tend to have subpar stats in general, but they're also immune to a ton of extra damage effects. There's about one model per Ludus with superb all around stats, but they often have rather dull abilities.

It's rather fun to analyze the gladiators, pick them apart and see where they stand out or what their failings are.

So which gladiators or monstrosities stand out to you as being particularly interesting in terms of strengths? Other than Viatrix?

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My Arena Rex painting log

Hroka and Aquila both stand out to me in terms of raw statline. They're both quite durable and can deal a lot of damage in return without sacrificing much in terms of speed or accuracy.

On the flip side, Sula and Stheno stand out as fighters that I don't quite see working. They have some abysmal stats and nothing in their special abilities feels so overwhelmingly powerful as to make up for that. I've not played Stheno (and haven't put a lot of thought in her Gorgons extra ability) but Sula has been fairly disappointing for me at least.

Everyone else.... I can see good reasons to consider them; nothing completely outlandish. Take the new Iocasta. Armor piercing is crazy; good enough to put her on top of the damage trees vs ARM 2, but her base damage is low enough that she really needs to be ignoring ARM to stand out. She even takes a dip at a fairly crucial point that makes a big difference in her ability to 2 shot armored targets. Even then, its worth remembering that for the points where she does damage on par with Noxius.... she's as durable as Noxius.

There's stuff like this all over the game that's important to consider. Most of the subpar models have a strength to leverage. Most of the mounts and riders are a tad meh, but then you have to remember they can't be pushed and get 2 attacks for 1 fatigue. It's an interesting game to map out and I'd be curious if that's a result of good mapping on the developers part, or just the result of the game working within some pretty narrow bands of variance.

Yeah... I agree that Sulla and Stheno are examples of models where their special abilities are meant to make them shine. Whether that will be the case or not will depend.

Sulla clearly is meant to be valuable because of Dictate, which is somewhat unique in allowing him to move both himself and another friendly model during his activation. Also the Exploit push can be situationally useful. It's hard to put a cost on flexibility. I guess his low damage and DEF 1 with re-roll are meant to show that he is an oldish man.

Stheno seems like her bread and butter is meant to be her push direction mastery. I do think it seems like it has potential, since she can both choose where she is pushed, and where she pushes others, as I read it. I have used her once, and I couldn't get the ability to be useful, so she didn't do well.

How about Leo or other 0 armour models?

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My Arena Rex painting log

The ARM 0 models are Leo, Micon, Euryale, and Infelix. They certainly rank among the lowest in terms of number of attacks they can survive, though its worth noting that Micon's health is enough to put him just above average in that regard and Leo is just a bit below average. Average durability tends to be a 3/1 with 14ish health. Of note, despite being a spectacular 3/2, Valen has survivability about on par with Leo when you can actually attack him.

Micon ends up being the outlier of the 4, being health durable and slow with poor damage. It's really all or nothing on his pushes. He's easily one of the most unique models in the game.

Leo, Euryale, and Infelix all benefit from threat range advantages (extremely true with Leo) that let them strike first and above average damage tracks. They really, really want to be finishers if possible. Infelix might be the exception, as his hilariously abysmal defenses really demand he make use of Countervail. Leo's extra damage also makes it important to remember Wild attacks.

Speaking of important uses of abilities, its worth noting that Euryale has lots of reasons to Power Attack. Generally speaking, if you're Exhausting a fighter, a power attack is better than two attacks (the extra average successes almost always do close enough to double damage to be superior after armor) but even if you ignore Hot Blooded, Euryale gets one of the biggest damage buffs when she power attacks. When you factor in the free Favor and extra Attack and Speed on her second form, she's probably one of the most capable models for going in with a power attack and wiping a model off the board if they've suffered any damage at all.