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PostPosted: Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:33 am 
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Viridis
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One funny thing is that Archidamos has a death effect. Other than Sereqet, he is the first non-Morituri to have one. But since it removes fatigue, it's completely useless for Morituri I guess - they can activate it on a clear turn with Cleo's Gift, but since it is a clear turn, all your models will be removing all their fatigue anyway. :D

But I wonder if this will be a trend for other non-Morituri models to get death effects in the future.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:48 pm 
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Wishing wrote:
One funny thing is that Archidamos has a death effect. Other than Sereqet, he is the first non-Morituri to have one. But since it removes fatigue, it's completely useless for Morituri I guess - they can activate it on a clear turn with Cleo's Gift, but since it is a clear turn, all your models will be removing all their fatigue anyway. :D

But I wonder if this will be a trend for other non-Morituri models to get death effects in the future.



I like this idea because I'm not much into the Egyptian style theme ( just me the models are beautiful) and I really want to mess around with the death effects!


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:39 am 
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Noxius
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Wishing wrote:
Antaeus = Micon. Both 40mm based, DEF 3 ARM 0, both specialists at wrestling, pushing and throwing. Micon can Atlas Throw, Antaeus can Hip Toss. They do their concept differently, but the concept is the same. LunorSol pointed this out earlier.


While there is truth to that, I think the playstyle will differ widely, especially when it comes to defense:
When counterattacking Micon most times won't be able to do an Atlas Throw. It just needs more successes than you'll usually do. Still, he's got a bucket load of hp, DEF 3 and a large base.
Antaeus on the other hand doesn't even need to be ready to use Hip-Toss. Meaning that even if you exhausted Antaeus to get that enemy model into a pit you have a chance to get him out of harm's way when your opponent tries to finish him next turn - spend a favour, displace to the other side, soak up damage. When counterattacking, the Hip-Toss makes him far more dangerous, as he might actually get into a position to push the attacker into a pit with only two or three net successes.

Furthermore, Micon's disadvantage is that he's not good at dealing damage. If there's no terrain for him to use, he does 9 dmg tops, and 4 of that are at the end of his tree. Antaeus can do 10 with a much healthier spread throughout his tree.

Not saying that Antaeus is better - I just feel that the two of them aren't that much alike.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:00 am 
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Viridis
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There are differences, sure. Their two abilities do a similar thing (changing the direction of engagement), but are activated in different ways - one costs Favor, but can be activated at will, and the other one is free, but you need to get a huge amount of successes to do it. I think playing with them will feel quite different for that reason - and I agree that the Hip Toss seems much better because it is more reliable. I can spend the Favor if I choose to, but I cannot get five successes just by choosing to.

Also agreed that Antaeus is much better at dealing damage. Micon has never been popular with me for that reason. Huge amount of health, but bad at dishing it out.

But the two of them are still more similar to each other than they are similar to any other models in the game. :)

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PostPosted: Fri Aug 24, 2018 11:44 am 
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Viridis
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I have a sort of nerdy rules-technical annoyance about Argos that keeps growing inside me.

The problem is that he has a tactic on his card that doesn't seem like a tactic.

The special things about tactics is that models cannot use tactics. Players use tactics. When you are taking a clear turn, your models aren't activating, and thus your models cannot use their normal abilities. What you do instead is that the player has certain abilities, the tactics, that they can use. That's why they cost Favor. Because Favor is the only resource that the player has.

So a player might go "I use Maneuver!" on his clear turn. That allows the player to select one of their models and declare a move action with them. But it was not the model that used Maneuver. It was the player.

Phalanx, the special tactic that Argos grants, seems to somewhat go against this concept. It reads: "A friendly model may make a Move action towards this model".

There's no problem with it per se. A player uses the tactic, it allows the player to choose one of their models and move it towards Argos. All fine. I just find it somewhat inelegant that the tactic calls out a specific model, since it is not that model who is using the tactic. It's not a very flexible tactic, let's put it that way.

I would have liked it better if it allowed one model to move towards any other friendly model. That would have felt more like a proper tactic, and not just like Argos having supreme human magnetism.

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:29 pm 
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Crudus

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Wishing wrote:
I have a sort of nerdy rules-technical annoyance about Argos that keeps growing inside me.

The problem is that he has a tactic on his card that doesn't seem like a tactic.

The special things about tactics is that models cannot use tactics. Players use tactics. When you are taking a clear turn, your models aren't activating, and thus your models cannot use their normal abilities. What you do instead is that the player has certain abilities, the tactics, that they can use. That's why they cost Favor. Because Favor is the only resource that the player has.

So a player might go "I use Maneuver!" on his clear turn. That allows the player to select one of their models and declare a move action with them. But it was not the model that used Maneuver. It was the player.

Phalanx, the special tactic that Argos grants, seems to somewhat go against this concept. It reads: "A friendly model may make a Move action towards this model".

There's no problem with it per se. A player uses the tactic, it allows the player to choose one of their models and move it towards Argos. All fine. I just find it somewhat inelegant that the tactic calls out a specific model, since it is not that model who is using the tactic. It's not a very flexible tactic, let's put it that way.

I would have liked it better if it allowed one model to move towards any other friendly model. That would have felt more like a proper tactic, and not just like Argos having supreme human magnetism.




Think of it like this he is the squad leader calling on his friendly models to form up on him. a very common Tactic throughout the worlds military forces.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 26, 2018 3:05 am 
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Viridis
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That's why I described it as a rules-nerdy point. Because if it is something only Argos can do, it seems like it should be a special ability of Argos. But it isn't - they wrote it as a tactic, and in this game, tactics are not specific to individual models, because it is the player that activates them, not the model. (Hence why you cannot draw real life into it - "the player" doesn't exist in real life.) :D

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PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2018 9:13 am 
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Viridis
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I made a slightly modified version of Argos' rule to show how I would have written it if I had a say... basically to align him with Sulla, whose basic card rules actually feel quite elegant to me. If you wanted to keep the "Only Argos is magnetic" aspect, just ignore the modification to Phalanx, but the main point is that invoking a tactic as an action should be expressed like the Dictate rule in my opinion.


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