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 Post subject: Anum Frenzy Power Attack
PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 1:36 pm 
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Noxius

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When triggering Anum's Frenzy as part of his Ludus benefits or on death, can you take a power attack as your single actionow? It's listed under the actions section, but it seems like it's worded to be treated differently, as you declare it after you've chosen to attack. Does this mean you can fatigue the Frenzied beast to make a PA if it's not available to you to begin with? Are these conditions also true for the Incite tactic? Thanks.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:41 am 
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Crudus
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I, too, would be interested to see what the ruling is on this.

The text for Frenzy does not say that the action is free... so does that mean that you still have to pay the fatigue cost? If so, then I'd imagine you could upgrade it to a Power Attack if you can pay the fatigue cost for that as well.
Living hazards attack for free but cannot pay fatigue costs, so it would seem that a Frenzy attack could not be upgraded for them.

Also, if the Frenzy action is supposed to be a free action (no fatigue cost), can you still target an Exhausted model? The rules state that an exhausted model cannot take any action, so I would imagine not... but it isn't entirely clear to me.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 4:18 am 
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Viridis
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So Frenzy (and Incite, which is basically identical except having a more narrow target range) states: "Target a model. Take a single action with the targeted model."

Just intuitively, and how most people play it I imagine, is that you are forcing the targeted model to take either one Move action or one Attack action. The action does not cause the acting model to gain fatigue, because Anum is gaining the fatigue instead (assuming he is using the Alpha ability rather than dying). I figure the idea is that Anum acts "through" the beast. For Incite, the beast is a living hazard that cannot gain fatigue - which Anum can also activate with Frenzy. Since power attack isn't a real action, but is an optional upgrade to an attack action, it doesn't seem to fit as part of the Frenzy/Incite action.

That's my intuitive reading. I would be happy to get it confirmed that this is the intention.

To make the wording more precise, it could say "Take a single action with the targeted model without that model gaining fatigue. Attacks made may not be upgraded to a power attack."

Assuming that my intuitive reading is correct.

It could be fun though if it said "If you make an attack, the targeted model may gain a fatigue to upgrade it to a power attack." But then that wouldn't work for living hazards. I think I prefer consistency.

As for whether you can target an exhausted model, it is not 100% spelled out in the rules, but the general consensus we seem to have reached with RRG here on the forum seems to be that the rulebook statement that "An Exhausted model may not take an action or make a reaction as long as it is Exhausted" is meant to be comprehensive, and all special abilities that trigger a model taking some kind of action will always be impossible to do if the model is exhausted - it must be either ready or fatigued for an ability like Frenzy to be able to make it take an action.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:21 pm 
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Crudus
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Wishing wrote:
The action does not cause the acting model to gain fatigue, because Anum is gaining the fatigue instead (assuming he is using the Alpha ability rather than dying).

"An Exhausted model may not take an action or make a reaction as long as it is Exhausted" is meant to be comprehensive, and all special abilities that trigger a model taking some kind of action will always be impossible to do if the model is exhausted - it must be either ready or fatigued for an ability like Frenzy to be able to make it take an action.



That's how I've been interpreting it as well. Essentially, instead of Anum being able to attack or take actions, the beast does it's stuff instead (flavor-wise, I see this as him being the "beast master" type, probably beating the beast with an object and driving it into a literal frenzy, which is why I also think there should be a range limit, but that's just me).


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