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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:15 pm 
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Noxius
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Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2016 11:21 pm
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So during a game this question was brought up:

Zahra has 3" engagement during her activation. if the defending model wishes to make a counter attack while outside of 1" (ie, Zahra is engaging from 3" away), can they in fact make the counter attack? If so, does the fact they are not in mele range prevent them from actually resolving any results (if they had more net successes)?

I am currently reading the interaction as this:

Quote:
After an enemy model declares an Attack Action against the reacting model.

This requirement is met.

Quote:
resolve those net successes as if you had made a successful attack. Declaring
a Counterattack reaction is not considered declaring an attack against the opposing model.


So counter attack can be made, but is still considered a successful attack. Does this mean engagement is still needed for results?

Quote:
If the resolution of any effect leaves the attacker or defender positioned
such that the attacker no longer engages the defender, the attack cannot continue, and any successes
not yet applied are lost.


So from here, it sounds like the check happens after an effect causes them to be outside of engagement. Does this mean you can have [2dmg] [3dmg] [push] while outside of the engagement, but the [push] is an effect that causes to you be out of the engagement?

This could affect her range but also have some purpose with models that can follow up 2"


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 5:39 pm 
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Crudus
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That is a very good question.
I interpret same way you did, that is, all the requirements for counterattack are met even if the defender is outside engagement range... but whether or not the results can be applied is a bit ambiguous.
Would love to get an official clarification on that.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 04, 2016 6:01 pm 
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Noxius
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right because it seems like, yes i can make the counter attack (aka defence+) but may or may not be able to do anything with it


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 12:56 am 
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Viridis
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Yeah, excellent question.

My feeling is that the way I would like it to be resolved is that the attacked model can make the counterattack, and use their ATK instead of DEF for dice, but if they score any successes against Zahra, they are lost and cannot be applied, since Zahra is not in their engagement range.

Basically, as I see it, the "effect" that causes the defender to be outside of the attacker's engagement range is when the counterattack swaps the roles of the two, so Zahra now becomes the defender instead of the attacker.

Effectively, it feels like currently the core rules for counterattacks assume that the attacker and defender will always engage each other both ways. This special case with Zahra was not considered. To make the rules more sturdy, I feel like what they should say is: Before resolving each result of the damage tree, check if the target of the result is in the inflictor of the result's engagement range. If not, then the attack ends and any subsequent damage tree results that would have been able to be applied are lost.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:37 am 
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Noxius
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Wishing, that is what I see as the best current interpretation. I hope they comment for an official stance, but I think your suggested rewording is a good one.


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 3:53 pm 
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Noxius
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@RRG_walker care to shed some light?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 7:49 am 
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Viridis
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I don't think we can rush the developers. Busy people that are busy making our great game. He'll get here when he has time, I am sure.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 3:53 pm 
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Founder of the Republic
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You have it right. You can roll the extra dice, but if you aren't engaging her with net successes they are lost. :D


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