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PostPosted: Mon Aug 29, 2016 7:04 pm 
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Crudus
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From the PDF Rulebook:
Exhausted (2 fatigue) - A model that begins the turn Exhausted may not activate that turn. An Exhausted model may not take an action or make a reaction as long as it is Exhausted. You may only remove fatigue from an Exhausted model during a clear turn or as the result of a special ability.

From the pertinent Gladiator card ability text:
Berserk - This model may activate while in the Fatigued or Exhausted states. In addition, once per activation, this model may pay 1 Favor and suffer 3 damage instead of gaining a fatigue.

Clearly the Berserk ability does away with the first Exhausted restriction, allowing the model to activate. However, it does not explicitly negate the second restriction, which states the model may not take an action. So, by this interpretation, an Exhausted model would NOT be able to even take its Free Move action while using Berserk.

Is this correct?

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 30, 2016 1:12 am 
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I personally read it as being implicit that if a special rule allows you to activate, it also allows you to take the free move action that you get as part of a normal activation. But you're right that it doesn't say that explicitly.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:26 am 
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I hope they clarify that and state it explicitly if that is their intent because the way I see it written right now, an Exhausted model would not be allowed to take any action, even a free action per the Exhausted rules.

Hmmmm. Come to think of it, the inconsistency may be in the Exhausred definition (PDF pg 4) because in the Rulebook under Turn Sequence Step 2 (PDF pg 5) the last sentence states "You may not declare actions that would cause the model to gain fatigue beyond the Exhausted state." This language is less restrictive than the one used for the Exhausted definition and would allow for a free action.

EDIT: I also posed the Exhausted definition question in another thread about free move order not involving the Berserk ability
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34611&p=40716#p40716

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:35 pm 
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RidiQles wrote:
I hope they clarify that and state it explicitly if that is their intent because the way I see it written right now, an Exhausted model would not be allowed to take any action, even a free action per the Exhausted rules.


Well, clearly the Berserk rule is meant to do something. If the berserking model could take no actions whatsoever while berserk-activating, the Berserk rule would do nothing. Therefore that can't be the intent.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:23 pm 
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Yep, working on this one.

That sentence was definitely intended to stop actions that you might be able to pay for in other ways. I think it is a remnant from a time when individual model rules did this more regularly (pre-playtest).

Precedence should definitely go to Brave/Berserk for the "paid" action (otherwise not much room for those abilities).

The free move (during normal activation after exhaustion, as well as during a berserk activation) is currently a maybe.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:39 am 
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If the intent is that Exhausted models should not normally be able to take any actions (even free ones) but Berserk would let them do so at a price, maybe something like this would work:

Berserk - This model may activate while in the Fatigued or Exhausted states. In addition, once per activation, this model may pay 1 Favor and suffer 3 damage to declare an action while Exhausted and reduce its fatigue cost by 1.

That might be a bit wordy, but it would allow Exhausted models to activate and take an action at a price, while also allowing models that are merely Fatigued to activate and do something without the Favor and health cost... so it would keep options kind of like it does now.
Or, taking a different approach, maybe something like this:

Berserk - This model may activate while in the Fatigued or Exhausted states. In addition, once per activation, this model may pay 1 Favor and suffer 3 damage to remove one fatigue.

Then you don't have to worry about bypassing the Exhausted restrictions, you just force a model to move down to the Fatigued state in order to act. Fatigued models would also have to pay the cost in order to do power attacks. There is the concern that it might be gamed to make Fatigued models Ready and then not take action with them... which doesn't seem a very Berserky thing to do... but mechanically they paid a price for it, so I don't know that I have a huge problem with it.

Anywho... just thoughts...

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:28 am 
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Hmm. Seems to me that the simplest thing is to just add a sentence to say whether or not the ability to activate while exhausted also overrides the general prohibition against taking a free Move action while exhausted (if we assume that is how the normal rules will be settled). So:

Berserk - This model may activate while in the Fatigued or Exhausted states, but may not take a free Move action while Exhausted. In addition, once per activation, this model may pay 1 Favor and suffer 3 damage instead of gaining a fatigue.

I don't see any other way to specify that the ability to activate while exhausted doesn't grant the ability to take the free Move action as if it wasn't exhausted. It will always be ambiguous if you don't specify it.

Unless the main rules end up saying that you can do the free Move action while you are in the exhausted state, you just can't start an activation while exhausted (unless you have Berserk). Then a Berserk model can activate and get a free move while exhausted all day long. :D

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 01, 2016 8:53 am 
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Yeah everything will depend on whether or not Exhiasted models are allowed to take any actions at all... if they are allowed then Berserk works fine as written, but if they aren't, then Berserk will have to explicitly give them that ability since activation and taking an action are two separate restrictions of the Exhausted state.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 08, 2016 4:21 pm 
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Berserk will get a re-word (posted in full here once I have locked it down) to specifically allow actions paid for with Berserk when exhausted. Other actions will not be allowed when exhaused, including the "free" move.


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