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| Re-learning the Rules http://redrepublicgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=48810 |
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| Author: | Wishing [ Tue Aug 14, 2018 1:17 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re-learning the Rules |
Yeah, like Dracyos says. The Maniple tactic says that models can reposition. The Reposition rule says that if you end your activaction unengaged, you can remove a fatigue. I tried to explain that models do not have activations on a clear turn in order to connect why a model using Maniple cannot remove fatigue at the end. |
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| Author: | Blipvert [ Tue Aug 14, 2018 5:22 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re-learning the Rules |
These appear to be the relevant rules. I’ve highlighted the terms that makes me unsure of the intent. Clear Turn During a clear turn you will not activate a model as normal . Instead each model in your cohort will remove one fatigue, even if exhausted. After you have removed fatigue you may use tactics ... Tactics are special bonuses and abilities that may only be activated during a Clear Turn Maniple - Tactic - Cost 2 Favor - Each Legio XIII gladiator model in your cohort may immediately reposition. Reposition - The attacking model may move 3 inches. If a model is not engaged at the end of its reposition movement it may immediately end its activation to remove its fatigue. Caveat - A reacting model is not activating therefore it will not remove a fatigue. If it’s a clear turn, are you activating? I don’t know. It says you aren’t activating as normal. So, is it a modified activation? Or is it something else with no specific term? On a clear turn, you use tactics. Maniple is a tactic. That part is very clear. Here’s the problem. Reposition is only discussed as a result on the damage tree. Further, it only applies to the attacking model. But there is no attack. Further, this model is not reacting either so the caveat also does not apply. I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just don’t understand how you reached your conclusion. |
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| Author: | Wishing [ Wed Aug 15, 2018 3:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re-learning the Rules |
I reach my conclusion simply based on what an activation is. The critical part is the question you highlight. Blipvert wrote: If it’s a clear turn, are you activating? I don’t know. You definitely, 100% cannot activate any models on a clear turn. Even though you can do lots and lots of things on a clear turn, none of it will be activating a model. (Caveat - A Last Man Standing gets to activate at the end of a clear turn. But even he wouldn't get to remove fatigue from manipling, because you have to do tactics before you can activate him.) Activating a model means having access to its fatigue store, so to speak. When you are activating, you get a free move, and you can spend up to two fatigue. That's what activating a model means. if that is not what you are doing, then you aren't activating a model. That's the intent that I read from the rules when I read them, and that's what I base my interpretation on. |
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| Author: | Draycos [ Wed Aug 15, 2018 7:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re-learning the Rules |
I can understand where your confusion comes from... specifically: "does not activate as normal". This could suggest an abnormal activation in which all models are "taking a resting action" to remove fatigue. But if this were the case it would be worded that way. The absence of the sentence "activate all models on a clear turn and they must remove one fatigue and cannot perform other actions" is the important part here. Simply put... the clear turn rules are meant to be read as: "On a clear turn do not activate any models. Instead a clear turn is initiated." So nothing is activating on a clear turn. When it comes to things missing in the rule book it is almost always a case of intent. The team in Arena Rex has not been know to have any loopholes in the rules. If there are, such at the assumed teleport on Theophania during an assist, it will usually get fixed (errata or otherwise) in a matter of a few days or so. If it is something you are intended to do, the rules typically would say so outright. |
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| Author: | Blipvert [ Wed Aug 15, 2018 9:01 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re-learning the Rules |
Yes, the rules tend to be quite literal. I would rephrase these rules to something like this: On a clear turn, you do not activate models. Instead you remove a fatigue. You may then use Tactics. Maniple. All Legio gladiator models may take a 3 inch move. This move may not be reacted to. ( I added the second part on my understanding that a reposition is not a move and therefore can’t be reacted to.) |
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| Author: | Wishing [ Wed Aug 15, 2018 10:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Re-learning the Rules |
The problem with human language tends to be that it can be very hard to write something that is completely unambiguous. One person will write something that seems 100% clear to them, but a person reading it will go "what do they mean?" I understand the impulse to remove the Reposition part of Maniple, and just call it what it is - a three inch move. However, RRG seems to like that Reposition is a kind of shorthand for that effect. And you never know - maybe they will write some special rule that triggers off someone Repositioning, and then it would matter. Regardless though, it shouldn't be necessary to write that it cannot be reacted to. It would only allow reactions if it was a Move Action, and it clearly is not, regardless of how we describe it. |
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