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 Post subject: Re-learning the Rules
PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 7:38 pm 
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Noxius
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Haven’t played in awhile so I’m re-learning the rules. I think I understand some things but want to double check.

Movement
I activate a ready model to move. It moves into engagement range of an enemy model that is ready. It reacts, moves away, and gains a fatigue.

Because I’m the active player, I cannot opportunity attack because 1, Opportunity Attack is a reaction and 2, reactions interrupt the active player’s turn and I can’t interrupt my own turn.

Do I have that right?

Let’s continue. With the enemy model now moved away, and fatigued, I can now continue my move and potentially re-enter engagement range. I now have a fatigue.

The enemy model cannot make a move reaction because of it’s fatigue, correct?

However, because I’m only fatigued, and it’s still my turn, I can attack and become exhausted, correct?

Reposition
I get a reposition result on my damage tree. I move out of an enemy model’s engagement range. The enemy model can not Opportunity Attack because that only triggers on a Move and a reposition is not move.

Is that correct?

Related question. When Legio uses their Maniple tactic, the same thing applies, correct? It’s not a move therefore the Enemy cannot react, correct?


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 13, 2018 11:52 pm 
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Crudus
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So far, everything you said is correct. On the reaction and why your opponent cannot, that is partly because they are already exhausted, but also because players are only allowed one reaction per round (so you gotta pick and choose).

I'd need to reread the rules for maniple, and too tired right now, but it sounds right so far.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 3:49 am 
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Viridis
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I agree with all the conclusions here too.

I think the key here is the principle of "actions" that are declared and resolve.

The trigger for the Move reaction is: After an enemy model resolves a Move Action.

The trigger for the Opportunity attack reaction is: After an enemy model declares a Move Action while in the reacting model’s engagement range.

So these reactions can only ever be used when your opponent either declares or resolves a Move Action.

A Move Action can currently occur in one of two ways.

1. An active model decides to declare a Move Action during their activation.
2. A player uses the Maneuver tactic on their clear turn (this allows one of their models to declare and resolve a Move Action).

Any and all other kinds of movement are not Move Actions, and therefore you cannot use the above reactions in response to them. So repositions, pushes, shifts, anything else you can think of that moves stuff around, you can't react to any of it, because none of it is a Move Action.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 6:52 am 
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Noxius
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I have to constantly remind myself that the rules are quite literal.

Wishing, just to make sure, a Tactic per se doesn’t trigger but a tactic with a Move will trigger? So it’s the Move that triggers?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 7:47 am 
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Crudus
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Jumping in - maniple does not allow for a reaction on your opponent's behalf, because the rules say they are immediately moving, and not declaring. It doesn't really matter whether or not they're moving.

Same thing with disengage with several of the Zephyri models. They just instantly move, they do not declare a move, therefore disengage doesn't trigger a movement reaction from the opponent, even though they're moving.

The presence and absence of the word "declare" means so much in this game.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 8:13 am 
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Viridis
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Blipvert wrote:
Wishing, just to make sure, a Tactic per se doesn’t trigger but a tactic with a Move will trigger? So it’s the Move that triggers?


Yeah, basically, but I would try and not focus so much on the word "Move". Instead, focus on the word "Action".

A tactic is not an action, so normally they cannot trigger anything that triggers off an action. But Maneuver is a special case, because the rules for that say "You may declare a standard Move Action with a friendly gladiator model at no fatigue cost."

Maneuver can trigger a reaction despite being a tactic because it literally says that a model declares an action (and then resolves it). The word "action" means reactions work. None of the other tactics cause actions to happen, therefore you cannot react to them.

And the reason you cannot react to repositions and disengages is that they are not actions.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:08 am 
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Noxius
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So far, so good.

So now, let’s assume I’m playing Legio. I use my Maniple tactic and reposition my models. If they end out of engagement range, they drop a fatigue. They can do so because:

1. Each model may do so as it’s a clear turn.

2. Clear turns affect all friendly models

3. Each model is ending its activation and therefore (assuming they end their reposition outside of engagement range) they can drop a fatigue.

Right so far?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 10:32 am 
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Viridis
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Nope, sorry. The problem is with your statement 3. You describe that each model ends their activation. They don't - nobody has an activation on a clear turn. A reposition is in itself nothing - it's just a damage tree result. It's not an action and the models doing it aren't activating.

So the result is just that each model gets to move 3 inches, but nothing else.

I think the best way to think of a clear turn is that a normal active turn goes like this.

1. Remove fatigue from one model.
2. Activate one other model.

A clear turn goes like this.

1. Remove fatigue from all models.
2. No activations - instead, use tactics, wild attacks, etc.

On a clear turn, you gain two things: The first is being able to remove fatigue from all models instead of just one, and the other is being able to use tactics and do other clear turn stuff. But what you give up is the ability to activate a model. No activations on a clear turn.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 11:50 am 
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Noxius
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I’m specifically talking about the Legio tactic Maniple. It allows all models to reposition. If they do, and they end outside of engagement range, do they lose a fatigue?


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 14, 2018 12:26 pm 
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Noxius
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Blipvert wrote:
I’m specifically talking about the Legio tactic Maniple. It allows all models to reposition. If they do, and they end outside of engagement range, do they lose a fatigue?



They do not lose a fatigue.

1) You can only use a tactic on a clear turn.
2) On a clear turn, no model is activating. This means that none of your models have an activation to end.
3) The Re-position rule states that if a model ends a re-position outside of melee it may choose to end it's activation to remove a fatigue.

This means that because you do not have an activation to end (on a clear turn) your models cannot choose to end their activations. Therefore they do not lose a fatigue.

I hope this is clearer.


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