Thinking on this one (more detail in the Berserk thread linked above). Currently undecided, will report back soon.
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| Move Question http://redrepublicgames.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34611 |
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| Author: | Arkadese [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 1:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Move Question |
The rule book states "A model's first move during its activation if free." Can the "first" Move Action come at any time during the figures activation? For example, could a figure perform an Attack Action, Move (for free) and Exhaust to perform another Attack Action (assuming the move ends with me within Melee Range. Or does this "free Move" HAVE to be the figure's first Action? |
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| Author: | RidiQles [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Move Question |
Your first move action (free) does not have to be the first overall action you take. However, the rules under "Exhausted" say that an exhausted model cannot take an action... so while you could perform your free move while Fatigued, you cannot do so while Exhausted. |
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| Author: | Arkadese [ Mon Aug 29, 2016 3:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Move Question |
Ooohh, good point on the Exhaustion. Thanks. |
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| Author: | RidiQles [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Move Question |
In looking at the interaction between Berserk and Exhausted I noticed a discrepancy in the rules regarding what an Exhausted model is and isn't allowed to do. Definition of Exhausted state (PDF pg 4) "... An Exhausted model may not take an action or make a reaction as long as it is Exhausted..." Then later under Turn Sequence Step 2 (PDF pg 5) "... You may not declare actions that would cause the model to gain fatigue beyond the Exhausted state." This latter is less restrictive than the former and would allow for a model to attack twice or make a power attack and then use its free move action. Not sure which is the intended restriction. |
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| Author: | Ghost [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 12:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Move Question |
RidiQles wrote: ... so while you could perform your free move while Fatigued, you cannot do so while Exhausted. RidiQles wrote: This latter is less restrictive than the former and would allow for a model to attack twice or make a power attack and then use its free move action. Only a ready model (without any fatigue) can be activated : - if it makes a single move, it's free. It gains no fatigue token and can be activated in a next turn. - if it makes one action (move or attack) before or after a free move, it gains one fatigue token. It becomes fatigued and cannot be activated in a next turn (unless its player remove this token). - if it makes two actions (two attacks, a power attack, an attack and a move) before or after a free move, it gains two fatigue tokens and become exhausted. It cannot be activated. Thanks to berserk, a model can be activated while fatigued : - it can make a free move at no fatigue cost and remains fatigued. - it can make a free move before or after one action, gains a fatigue and becomes exhausted. Instead of gaining a fatigue, it can pay one favor and suffers 3 damages but remain fatigued. - it can make a free move before or after two actions, by paying one favor, suffering 3 damages and gaining one fatigue token. It becomes exhausted. Thanks to berserk, a model can be activated while exhausted : - it can make a free move and remains exhausted. - it can make a free move before or after an action, by paying a favor, suffering 3 damages. It remains exhausted. |
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| Author: | RidiQles [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 2:06 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Move Question |
I think in cross-posting I may have confused the issue here. Let's leave the Berserk question out of this one as I am discussing it in a different thread. You can go to that one here: viewtopic.php?f=20&t=34613 In this post I am only concerned with the the ability to perform an action once you enter the Exhausted state. Per the definition of Exhausted on the rule book (PDF pg 4) once you enter the Exhausted state you are unable to take ANY action, which I would read to mean even free move actions (assuming you haven't used it yet). Per the description under Turn Squence, Step 2 (PDF pg 5) you may continue to perform actions as long as none of them take you past the Exhausted state, which I would read to mean that if you activate a Ready model and attack twice or perform a power attack first, you would still be able to take your free move action as this generates no fatigue and therefore does not take you past the Exhausted state. They way it is written, I believe these two portions of the rule book are in conflict. |
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| Author: | Wishing [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Move Question |
I see your point and think it's a good question. Which can be summed up as follows: A model activates and makes a power attack, going from ready to exhausted. Can it now make its free Move action? Or does the fact that it is now exhausted prevent this? My expectation would be that it can. Similar to what Ghost is stating above. |
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| Author: | RRG_walker [ Wed Aug 31, 2016 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Move Question |
Thinking on this one (more detail in the Berserk thread linked above). Currently undecided, will report back soon.
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| Author: | Wishing [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 4:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Move Question |
Cool. I think I'd be comfortable with simply saying that a model can only take a free move action while it is still ready, at 0 fatigue. It would feel a little arbitrary to me if a model can make a free move while fatigued, but not while exhausted. And having a model move after having exhausted itself feels a bit... wrong. Like, it can't be that exhausted then if it still has energy left for a quick jog. But that makes Berserk a little more tricky, because if you keep the principle that a berserker can pretend to be ready even though it isn't, then the berserker would gain the ability to make a free move after attacking, which nobody else can do. And that would feel a bit weird too. If you wanted to stop that, you would have to word Berserk so that it allows the berserker to activate while fatigued or exhausted, but only take actions that would give fatigue during the berserk activation. Or simply say that the free move you get has to be the first action you take during your activation, otherwise you lose it. Just thinking out loud... |
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| Author: | RidiQles [ Thu Sep 01, 2016 7:25 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Move Question |
I think that making the free move action only possible when you have 0 fatigue (so basically only as your first action of the turn) takes away from the strategic choices you have during your turn and from the mind games that result as the defensive players weigh their reaction options, which is one of my favorite parts of combat in this game. And although I agree that allowing a free move while Fatigued but not while Exhausted might seem somewhat arbitrary... I think it works fine in accentuating the difference between the two stages and emphasizing the helplessness of the Exhausted stage: Ready state - Can activate, can react, can take actions Fatigued state - Cannot activate, cannot react, but can take actions (free or single fatigue actions) Exhausted state - Cannot activate, cannot react, cannot take ANY actions Wording would need to be added to Turn Sequence Step 2 (PDF pg 5) to clarify that not only can you not declare actions that would cause fatigue beyond Exhausted, but you also may not declare actions once you reach the Exhausted state. The Berserk ability would still need to be amended to make it usable by Exhausted models but I'll take that discussion to the other thread. |
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